Pay To Play pt 2
The warning signs are in black. Michael's criticism is in bold. My response is in red...
Here again they try some “elitist” “non-comformist” logic to make there argument. Yah smoke another bowl and complain about how life is unfair (rolls eyes). My responses are below and in bold. Holy crap, this is awesome! Being called a "nonconformist" is a big compliment in my book! So apparently Michael only likes dealing with conformists. I wonder why? And "smoke another bowl"?! Really?
(Girl Trouble)Never Pay to Play’s
10 Warning Signs It’s a Pay to Play Show
1) Unsolicited spam email: you typically receive a friendly often flattering email from a company you’ve never heard of, with show dates to choose from, or how to sign up for their Battle of The Bands (BOTB) contest. Their websites are usually professional looking/elaborate. No Matter how new your band is, or if you even are a band, they’ll claim they are interested in your music and want to work with you. Typically they don’t even listen to you.
1) I have gotten a lot of emails from people I didn’t know and very few if any were pay to play events. I have not had particular good experiences with people that speak in absolutes, they tend to be fanatics, very irrational, and I personally have had difficulty reasoning with them. I did not say all spam emails are pay to play emails, dude! And by the way, if you are saying I am a fanatic, I also take that as a compliment. Also agreed, you'd have difficulty reasoning with me if you were trying to make me do a pay-to-play show!
2) They claim they are not pay-to-play: the pay-to-play company goes out of their way to mention many times over that they are not. No legitimate booking company has to make this claim. These companies are constantly doing damage control on blogs and message boards, trying to defend themselves against unhappy musicians. Always Google first to see what other bands are saying on musician forums/blogs (FYI: “glowing praise” on their pay-to-play site doesn’t count).
2) Here is a prefect example of the irrational thinking I am talking about. With this logic the only people that are not pay to pay would have to be anyone that says they are pay to play. Okay, you kind of lost me...but frankly, your gorillanow.com website actually proves my point. What company rep puts up an entire website to try to defend themselves and their company against the elitist irrational ramblings of one person?
3) You are given Tickets to sell: Whether it’s a requirement to play a show or suggested in order to win a contest, a bands’ role is not to be in charge or pre-ticket sales. Promote the hell out of it, but let the club (or promoter) do the actual ticket selling. You are “the artist” and your role is to put on a good show that people will want to see.
3) Here they are again speaking in absolutes, but that aside just selling tickets doesn’t dictate that its a pay to play event. Pay to Play means exactly that you pay someone money in order to perform. Now if a promoter requires you to sell a certain number of tickets and charges you personally for falling short or threatens you with force then its pay to play. Check the above Figures again. Plus, you've missed the point. Bands deserve to be paid. You seem to want to defend all the bands with the statement you made on your Real Deal page...
"Then I hear bands making the argument that the bands on the show are shitty. Who are you to judge what a band is or isn’t? And if you really feel that way then you shouldn’t be an artist pursuing this craft. There is crappy bands that have made it all the way to top as far I can tell. Besides, how did you sound when you first started? Get off it…Grow up…Practice some humility and respect."
Great! Then give bands the humility and respect they deserve and let them play first and then pay them. That will be much more appreciated than some lip service on a website.
4) You hand money before you play: If you hand any money, no matter where it comes from (your friends, family, your own pockets, the sofa cushions) to a company representative before the show, you are paying to play. The representative keeps a detailed tally of who came to see which band either by asking at the door or counting hands at a BOTB. This is never the real way shows are produced.
4) Again, if you hand money over out of your own pocket to play on a show then its pay to play, but if you choose to sell tickets to friends, family, and fans, saving them money and making your group money in the process, while you promote your group and show by insuring you play for a decent crowd then its just good marketing and good business. All promoters/companies come up with this same lame argument. Actually, the process is irrelevant to the outcome. In other words, it doesn't really matter HOW it is achieved. It only matters that it IS achieved. No matter how it's sliced and diced, promoters end up getting money from the bands.
5) The company takes the biggest cut: you get none (as in BOTB’s) or a small percentage back from the money you turned in. No matter what the situation, the company always takes the biggest cut for themselves. They are acting as unnecessary middleman.
5) They would like you to think these company’s take the largest cut but that is not the case. Many company’s pay groups a very generous cut when you consider the fact that they are taking all the risk, and covering all the over-head out of their cut of the of the proceeds. Most venues rent there rooms out for between $500 and $1,000 and that just the room rent. There are many other expense associated with these kinds of events. Most profitable companies net between 5-10% and these companies are no different. I won't fall for this old trick either. Again, you can't pump up these expenses. I've put on my own show. The room costs one amount. Gorilla mostly rents them on Sundays, when the rent is cheaper because it's considered a "dead night". Let's face it, if there was no money to be made on this deal, there wouldn't be a Gorilla Productions. And be sure to tell us the pre-sale company that pays groups "very generous cuts". In five years I have yet to find it.
6) Only very new or inexperienced bands are on the bill: pay-to-play companies work with inexperienced bands. Notice who’s on the bill (if they can even tell you) and see if it’s anybody you’ve ever heard of. Established bands are hip to this con job and won’t do these shows. In fact, ask any established band what they think of paying-to-play (unless you are profanity sensitive) and see how they view this practice.
6) The shows in question do tend to have more in-experience groups on them that why these companies were created ion the first place to give groups with less experience and fewer relationships opportunities to play on great shows. The fact that the shows tend to be so well attended is the reason the experienced group try to get on them, everyone want to play on great shows. Please tell me what experienced group is trying to get on your shows. I want to talk to them. Bands from your company don't count. And finally! Somebody from your company has admitted that mostly inexperienced bands play your shows.
7) Crappy shows: Too many bands on the bill, a mismatched lineup of acts, too short of time on stage, admission price higher than normal, and an audience that won’t stay for the whole show (or are only interested in the band they came to vote for).
7) Who are they to say which groups are bad and which one are good. If having 10 bands on a show makes it a crappy show, then Oz Fest and Warp Tour must really blow! Wow, you totally ignored that entire thing. The show is crappy, not the bands. You didn't address how there are too many bands, how the line-up is mismatched, how the set times are too short, how the admission price is higher and how the audience typically only wants to see the band they bought the tickets from. And you aren't really comparing a Gorilla Battle of the Bands to the Warped Tour are you? God, I hope not.
8) Big promises, big prizes: if you play this show your band will be on the road to fame and fortune. You’ll play in a venue you will never get on your own and you will win a chance to do a major tour, play at a major festival, get a million dollar recording contract, receive free recording time at a major studio, have major label A&R reps to evaluate you, ect. The percentage of any of this happening though these shows is remote at best.
8) Why do big prizes have to translate into big promises? These guys seem like a glass is half empty kind of crew. American Idol has some big prizes according to this definition they must be a scam. I don't think the American Idol contestants are selling tickets to their family and friends and handing in the money to Randy Jackson every week. First you compare Gorilla Productions to the Warped Tour and now it's American Idol! Are we talking about the same company?
9) No promo: The company doesn’t print flyers for the show, there are no special print ads in the local music papers, no mention in the free concert calendar. The only promotion is done by the bands. Only the club might list it on their website and that’s it. BECAUSE…
9) Its my understanding that a lot of these companies do make flyers for the shows and getting it on the clubs website isn’t a small task. What promoting do the groups do that these promoters are not doing? What are they talking about? Yeah, these companies design on-line flyers that they suggest bands use as their Facebook default photo. Big Deal! AND if you can't get the band names playing that night on the club website you need to go back to Promotions 101. That's the easiest part of promoting a show! If the club won't list the bands playing that night, find another club to rent!
10) you do all the work – they get all the money: and if the show doesn’t turn out well and you complain, you get the blame for not working hard enough, or being a band that will never make it in this biz. In addition, pay-to-play promoters will always stress what a big favor they do for bands, how much they are sacrificing to help you obtain success, how they too are musicians who’s only unselfish goal is to “help other musicians”
10) Coordinating an event is a highly risky venture that takes a lot of time and money. Most promoters risk their own money, time, and resources to to provide groups with the best live experience possible. Are they all good? No! In every industry you’re going to find some bad seeds, but this site seems to think everyone is bad, that’s just not true! Be sure to list what the "bad" companies are. And boo-hoo. This is also an old trick. You are doing so much for the lowly musician. I know a good show from a bad one and your show model is a disaster. There are many bands who have complained about these types of gigs, if they can keep their post up before somebody threatens them with a lawsuit. Here's a great idea. Since doing these shows is such a hardship, why take the risk at all?
As you say, something to think about...
BACK TO TOP |
